dragora/dragora-website

Hello!

The link to the Dragora logo at gnu.org isn't good for some reasons:

The logo was created for Dragora and then Matias send it to the gnu.org. If the person won't open the link, it can make feel that logo was produced for gnu.org but it isn't so. (I understand that it is a bit strange reason)
The gnu.org has version with 137x128 size but the Dragora project uses the version with size 211x211. We also have big raster version of the logo with size 512x512 but it isn't original.
The Dragora website itself contains logo. I am not against promotion gnu.org. I love it and free software but it looks redundant.

My proposal:

Change the link to point to version from Dragora website.
Save the link to the gnu.org but point that it is an additional resource to view it.
Add link to svg version logo like pointed in (1).
(Optional) Provide link to the large version of logo (512x512)
~~Send to the webmasters of gnu.org new versions of Dragora logo.~~

Hi @msi, @selk!

I invite you to discuss it

re this change: e51d6dc78f

we have been discussing this among the GNU webmasters - the SVG version is great - i believe that it was published already - i dont think that Yevhen can claim copyright on that work though; because it appears to be identical to the original, just in a different format - the license allows people to duplicate the work; but an exact duplicate is not copyrightable - for that reason, i dont think that the license can be upgraded either

the part of the license which allows upgrading the license, applies to "adaptations" - im not a licensing expert; but it think converting the file format is not an adaptation - even if it was re-created by hand, its still a "copy", not a derivative work

Hide quoted text

You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms of: (i) this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License;

I want to point out that I wanted to add data to gnu.org. I didn't want replacing of original 137x128 image except if 211x211 was also made by Claudio Santillan. The decision to replace image at gnu.org wasn't my. I wanted to save it

i explained about that - the new png image is clearly an improvement; so i suggested using it

that' all good - the only reason i am bothering about it, is because you have claimed copyright, on the GNU website, and in this repo - i believe that is not a legitimate claim and the license can not be changed, unless you made some significant modification - if the image were used without modification in a derivative work, the license could be different for the derivative work; but still the original license of the original work would not change, unless it was altered in some artistic way

this is my suggestion:

The Dragora logo is Copyright 2011 Claudio Santillan and subject to the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.

The SVG version of the Dragora logo was recreated meticulously by hand in 2022 by Yevhen Babiichuk (DustDFG). Thanks Yevhen!

It is sad for me but I think @bill-auger is right

there is nothing to be sad about - the only difference is that you could not sue someone for violating the copyright - but that is not likely to ever happen, and no one really wants to do that anyways

the only way there could be a problem, is if someone violates the copyright (which is nearly impossible to with a permissive license), and no one can contact Claudio to do something about it - there is really no other reason why anyone would want a copyright - it is only a protection and a responsibility - it is not an honor, and is not worth anything unless the work is proprietary

Thanks for bringing this up.

I'd use the following text:

The Dragora logo is Copyright 2011 Claudio Santillan and subject to the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.

The SVG version of the Dragora logo was recreated meticulously by hand in 2022 by Yevhen Babiichuk (DustDFG).

Despite us being thankful for the creation of the SVG version of the logo, I would omit "Thanks Yevhen!", for three reasons: First, the licensing and copyright info page should be kept as concise as possible. Second, we are already attributng the work and expressing our thanks without the addition. Third, if we make this addition for Yevhen's work, we'll have to do it for all considerable contributions in the future. But then, we're not saying "Thanks Claudio!" either.

So, IMO, it's better to just leave it out.

I'd prefer the following text:

The Dragora logo is Copyright 2011 Claudio Santillan and subject to the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.

The SVG version of the Dragora logo was vectoriszed in 2022 by Yevhen Babiichuk (DustDFG).

or the following:

The Dragora logo is Copyright 2011 Claudio Santillan and subject to the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.

The SVG version of the Dragora logo was recreated in 2022 by Yevhen Babiichuk (DustDFG).

Okay, I'd go with the second version.

However, what strikes me as slightly odd there is that it says "recreated" instead of "created". I'm not exactly sure why @bill-auger chose that wording.

I mean, you didn't recreate the SVG version of the logo. You created an SVG version of the logo, thereby recreating the original logo in a different format.

So, IMO, it should actually say "created".

@bill-aguer: Could you comment on this?

I mean, you didn't recreate the SVG version of the logo. You created an SVG version of the logo, thereby recreating the original logo in a different format.

I agree with both versions. IMO, "created" is better than "recreated" but I know English bad so I just decided to support wording that came from the person that knows it better.

i like the "vectorized" wording - it is the most concise

re: #8

After some further discussion on IRC, this has been solved now.

@dustdfg: How about simply removing the link to the logo on gnu.org from our copyright and licensing page?

Wouldn't this solve the problem entirely?

I mean, if anyone wants to obtain any variant of the Dragora logo, it's available from our repositories.

I mean, if anyone wants to obtain any variant of the Dragora logo, it's available from our repositories.

Congratulations! I proposed it in the first message of this issue too.

I propose to rewrite it something like it:

<p>The
<a href="https://dragora.org/img/dragora_logo.png">Dragora logo</a> is
Copyright 2011 Claudio Santillan and subject to the terms of the
<a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0">Creative Commons
Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.</a></p>

<p>The Dragora logo was translated into the <a href="https://dragora.org/img/dragora_logo.svg">SVG format</a> in 2022 by Yevhen
Babiichuk (DustDFG).</p>

I also proposed in this case add something like it:

<p>You can also find the logos at <a href="https://www.gnu.org/graphics/distros-dragora.html">gnu.org</a></p>

It has only one problem. As I know, we can't normally use relative links in html 4.0

Congratulations! I proposed it in the first message of this issue too.

If it is rude, I am sorry

it is generally bad idea to rely on external servers, for anything that one requires - and i noted, most of the artwork in that gallery are there, because they are used on other pages of the GNU website - of course all instances of those images could be fetched from external servers by each client, but if those external servers ever go offline, those images (or javascripts, CSS, etc) would be missing from the website - people who do that with javascripts or CSS are basically gambling that the website will be broken sometimes, regardless of how well-made the website is or how well the server admin maintains the server - it also makes it so if the documentation is read offline, all of the images would be missing

for the same reason, i suggested yesterday that using a URL to point to the CC license poses the same problem; because anyone acquiring the code does not actually get a copy of the license - it is always best to add everything important to the same code-base - that way, everything can be hosted on the same server, with no possibility of losing any parts, and is fully usable offline

@dustdfg:

I fail to see how you had already proposed simply removing the link, i.e., not linking to any Dragora logo file at all.

Your last suggestion on how to rewrite the page goes in the opposite direction.

This is, however, not a page meant to make it easy to download all the different versions of the Dragora logo. It's meant to provide copyright and licensing information (and some attribution on top of that) with the least possible amount of clutter.

If anyone wants to obtain Dragora's logo, they can get it from our repositories.

dustdfg closed 1 year ago

#7 Link to the Dragora logo at gnu.org