#50 Working Group

Open
opened 3 weeks ago by fr33domlover · 2 comments

Often I open issues or forum threads about spec decisions, and there's very little feedback or no feedback at all. This situation leaves me stuck between two choices:

  • Make decisions based on the available feedback: This allows me to work fast and make progress, but the decisions have little value because they don't rely on the situation of the fediverse and ActivityPub applications
  • Wait for more feedback: This makes sure the decisions are reliable, but it takes very long time and I end up working very very slowly or entirely get stuck waiting for feedback

I'd love to have a tighter loop of feedback! We used to have very lively discussion on the mailing list, and I'd like to revive that pace, bring it back.

I posted a poll on the fediverse here, and at the time of writing it seems most interested people would like to participate once a month. We could call that the ForgeFed Community and have monthly announcements to discuss open issues. Maybe even a real-time meeting, if people express interest.

I'd like to have a tighter loop, with more frequent feedback than once a month, that includes people who work on ActivityPub projects and forge related projects. Idk if there are enough interested people in the ActivityPub and software dev communities, but let's try. 2 questions:

  1. How do we start the group?
  2. How do we manage the group?

How to start: I can announce in the forum, on Freepost, on the fediverse, and of course on the mailing list.

How to manage: Where do we list the working group members and how do we keep contact with them? Idea: Open a forum thread in which we explain things, and ask people who want to participate to do 2 things:

  • Write a comment to introduce themselves and the project(s) they work on if any
  • Set the tracking level on the ForgeFed category of the forum, to be notified on all the activity just like it was in the ML
  • Enable Discourse mailing list mode if they prefer to interact with the forum via email

There in the forum we can discuss the frequency of issue triage (for example, the AP group does it biweekly iirc) and see if people just want to scroll through forum topic and NAB issues, or also have text/audio meetings.

Thoughts/ideas/objections?

Often I open issues or forum threads about spec decisions, and there's very little feedback or no feedback at all. This situation leaves me stuck between two choices: - Make decisions based on the available feedback: This allows me to work fast and make progress, but the decisions have little value because they don't rely on the situation of the fediverse and ActivityPub applications - Wait for more feedback: This makes sure the decisions are reliable, but it takes very long time and I end up working very very slowly or entirely get stuck waiting for feedback I'd love to have a tighter loop of feedback! We used to have very lively discussion on the mailing list, and I'd like to revive that pace, bring it back. I posted a poll on the fediverse [here](https://floss.social/@forgefed/103142687665530754), and at the time of writing it seems most interested people would like to participate once a month. We could call that the ForgeFed Community and have monthly announcements to discuss open issues. Maybe even a real-time meeting, if people express interest. I'd like to have a tighter loop, with more frequent feedback than once a month, that includes people who work on ActivityPub projects and forge related projects. Idk if there are enough interested people in the ActivityPub and software dev communities, but let's try. 2 questions: 1. How do we start the group? 2. How do we manage the group? How to start: I can announce in the forum, on Freepost, on the fediverse, and of course on the mailing list. How to manage: Where do we list the working group members and how do we keep contact with them? Idea: Open a forum thread in which we explain things, and ask people who want to participate to do 2 things: - Write a comment to introduce themselves and the project(s) they work on if any - Set the tracking level on the ForgeFed category of the forum, to be notified on all the activity just like it was in the ML - Enable Discourse mailing list mode if they prefer to interact with the forum via email There in the forum we can discuss the frequency of issue triage (for example, the AP group does it biweekly iirc) and see if people just want to scroll through forum topic and NAB issues, or also have text/audio meetings. Thoughts/ideas/objections?
bill-auger commented 3 weeks ago
Collaborator

that is all perfectly reasonable, but there is really nothing new that needs to be done - the feneas forum was intended to replace the git-pub mailing list for discussions - IIRC, that was already made known to everyone on that list

i dont see any question of "how" - its just a matter of "who" is still interested and on which service to reach them; with the trouble being that there are interested people scattered across several different services: the git-pub list, github, the feneas forum, the notabug tracker, mastodon, as well as two IRC channels - maybe there would be more discussion on a real mailing list or on github; and those are simply not being utilized

there seems to be some amount of interest on each of github, mastodon, and the feneas forum, and possibly the socialhub forum - it could be that a centralized web forum is missing the sweet spot; or maybe there is no single service that can herd all of the cats that are the core audience - such as: maybe most people on mastodon will never use email, maybe most people who prefer email will never use mastodon or any web forum, maybe most people on github will never use any of those, and so on - also, not to forget that there were people on the socialhub forum, who resisted the feneas proposal on moral or political grounds - those folks are likely never to use the feneas forum; even though they are probably in the group that prefers a web forum over email or github

im just not sure that there is an optimal solution

that is all perfectly reasonable, but there is really nothing new that needs to be done - the feneas forum was intended to replace the git-pub mailing list for discussions - IIRC, that was already made known to everyone on that list i dont see any question of "how" - its just a matter of "who" is still interested and on which service to reach them; with the trouble being that there are interested people scattered across several different services: the git-pub list, github, the feneas forum, the notabug tracker, mastodon, as well as two IRC channels - maybe there would be more discussion on a real mailing list or on github; and those are simply not being utilized there seems to be some amount of interest on each of github, mastodon, and the feneas forum, and possibly the socialhub forum - it could be that a centralized web forum is missing the sweet spot; or maybe there is no single service that can herd all of the cats that are the core audience - such as: maybe most people on mastodon will never use email, maybe most people who prefer email will never use mastodon or any web forum, maybe most people on github will never use any of those, and so on - also, not to forget that there were people on the socialhub forum, who resisted the feneas proposal on moral or political grounds - those folks are likely never to use the feneas forum; even though they are probably in the group that prefers a web forum over email or github im just not sure that there is an optimal solution
fr33domlover commented 6 days ago
Collaborator

Great point. I guess there's no single perfect communication system that everyone enjoys using. But one thing is clear: Nothing is happening on the mailing list. And a lot is happening in the forum. So I'm going to go with the forum.

PROPOSAL for tasks to do (I'll do them):

  1. Figure out how to use Discourse via email - @bill-auger perhaps you know the details of this? I want to write an explanation for people who prefer email etc.
  2. Write a forum post to explain how the group works, ask people to introduce themselves, how to use forum via email, etc. and also the work plan: I propose biweekly topic/issue review rounds
  3. Send an email to the ML
  4. Link to the working group forum topic and to the community group forum topic from our repo's README and from the website's homepage

Objections before I begin?

Great point. I guess there's no single perfect communication system that everyone enjoys using. But one thing is clear: Nothing is happening on the mailing list. And a lot is happening in the forum. So I'm going to go with the forum. PROPOSAL for tasks to do (I'll do them): 1. Figure out how to use Discourse via email - @bill-auger perhaps you know the details of this? I want to write an explanation for people who prefer email etc. 2. Write a forum post to explain how the group works, ask people to introduce themselves, how to use forum via email, etc. and also the work plan: I propose biweekly topic/issue review rounds 3. Send an email to the ML 4. Link to the working group forum topic and to the community group forum topic from our repo's README and from the website's homepage Objections before I begin?
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