#116 Thinkpad X200 does not start at first try

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opened 1 year ago by mscarav · 17 comments
mscarav commented 1 year ago

I flashed libreboot stable release (20160907) on a Thinkpad X200 using the flashrom binary included in the repository and Raspberry pi 3 as an SPI programmer. The flash was successful, but the system never boots when pressing the power button first time. The screen stays dark and I have to forcibly shutdown. The second time it usually works. Sometimes only the third attempt works. Once the system boots everything works correctly. The system CPU is Intel P8600 2.4 GHz.

I flashed libreboot stable release (20160907) on a Thinkpad X200 using the flashrom binary included in the repository and Raspberry pi 3 as an SPI programmer. The flash was successful, but the system never boots when pressing the power button first time. The screen stays dark and I have to forcibly shutdown. The second time it usually works. Sometimes only the third attempt works. Once the system boots everything works correctly. The system CPU is Intel P8600 2.4 GHz.
mscarav commented 1 year ago
Poster

I hope this info helps anybody who is experiencing the same issues. I solved it by changing the RAM modules. Everything works fine now.

I hope this info helps anybody who is experiencing the same issues. I solved it by changing the RAM modules. Everything works fine now.
Ghost commented 1 year ago

Just thought I should mention, that version is massively outdated...

I kind of wish I knew the context as to why you posted this?

Not a contributor or a developer, but its just... curious and weird, that's all.

Wondering if you were trying to figure something out that doesn't happen in old vs new, or if it is just something irrelevant.

Call me confused aka...

Just thought I should mention, that version is massively outdated... I kind of wish I knew the context as to why you posted this? Not a contributor or a developer, but its just... curious and weird, that's all. Wondering if you were trying to figure something out that doesn't happen in old vs new, or if it is just something irrelevant. Call me confused aka...
mscarav commented 1 year ago
Poster

The context as to why I posted this is quite simple: I was hoping to get some help figuring out what was going on and the new stable had not been released yet when I posted this. Glad I could sort it out myself.

Funny you should mention this, because although it is true that 20160907 is now outdated, I tried 20220710 afterwards and it does not work well at all on my X200 (lost battery icon, cannot change screen brightness, system stuck on shutdown/reboot, as well as occasionally stuck during boot), whereas the oldstable seems to work very well. I posted about these problems I experienced with the new version as well( #120 ACPI issues).

The context as to why I posted this is quite simple: I was hoping to get some help figuring out what was going on and the new stable had not been released yet when I posted this. Glad I could sort it out myself. Funny you should mention this, because although it is true that 20160907 is now outdated, I tried 20220710 afterwards and it does not work well at all on my X200 (lost battery icon, cannot change screen brightness, system stuck on shutdown/reboot, as well as occasionally stuck during boot), whereas the oldstable seems to work very well. I posted about these problems I experienced with the new version as well( #120 ACPI issues).
Ghost commented 1 year ago

Yikes, then I will absolutely avoid using the newer firmware for now...

:/

Thanks for the warning... seems I should wait for now.

;)

Yikes, then I will absolutely avoid using the newer firmware for now... :/ Thanks for the warning... seems I should wait for now. ;)
Ghost commented 1 year ago

I spoke to someone recently, actually, from a specific dev team... aka, I use Hyperbola, funny thing is, someone I know has an x200 also, like me.

I plan to check this, preferably, when it isn't really late at night...

My point being, this person had almost no issues, with the current libreboot bios for their X200.

I begin to wonder if it is some bloatware bs, it certainly has caused problems in stuff like UEFI and specific software made by redhat that is beyond bloated...

This is why:

Two things come to mind, mainstream distros are accepting too much unstable bloatware...

besides, the more you give into a bully, such as microsoft or people like them, the more people will do stuff like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFI#Processor_compatibility

Aka, they will port it to as many platforms as possible and proceed to learn nothing from their previous stupidity and arrogance.

UEFI at one point, was primarily an x86 thing mostly...

The Earliest though, I know of that it evolved to ARM, is this:

https://www.asset-intertech.com/resources/blog/2015/11/uefi-on-intel-and-arm-whats-the-world-coming-to/

My point being, quite a few linux distros out there are starting to support UEFI when they should be fighting tooth and nail against it.

It's just such an unbelievable stupid idea, to support something this awful.

https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/6kw648 /linux_uefi_vs_legacy_ide_prosconssecurity/

The first comment:

Or if you prefer, the one with 7 likes at this time, is very on target.

Point being, the more people take the easy road, the more lock-in for the future.

Just look up a picture of the below to get a good idea of the truth:

Facepalm.jpeg

Btw, just a quick edit: what I mean is, by what they will do, is that they will spread their backdoor infested ideals as far as they can.

UEFI has remote issues far reaching no matter what OS is on.

Legacy, is only a nightmare to operating systems not developed by people who actually care about security. So... yeah, this is all not good.

I spoke to someone recently, actually, from a specific dev team... aka, I use Hyperbola, funny thing is, someone I know has an x200 also, like me. I plan to check this, preferably, when it isn't really late at night... My point being, this person had almost no issues, with the current libreboot bios for their X200. I begin to wonder if it is some bloatware bs, it certainly has caused problems in stuff like UEFI and specific software made by redhat that is beyond bloated... This is why: Two things come to mind, mainstream distros are accepting too much unstable bloatware... besides, the more you give into a bully, such as microsoft or people like them, the more people will do stuff like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFI#Processor_compatibility Aka, they will port it to as many platforms as possible and proceed to learn nothing from their previous stupidity and arrogance. UEFI at one point, was primarily an x86 thing mostly... The Earliest though, I know of that it evolved to ARM, is this: https://www.asset-intertech.com/resources/blog/2015/11/uefi-on-intel-and-arm-whats-the-world-coming-to/ My point being, quite a few linux distros out there are starting to support UEFI when they should be fighting tooth and nail against it. It's just such an unbelievable stupid idea, to support something this awful. https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/6kw648 /linux_uefi_vs_legacy_ide_prosconssecurity/ The first comment: Or if you prefer, the one with 7 likes at this time, is very on target. Point being, the more people take the easy road, the more lock-in for the future. Just look up a picture of the below to get a good idea of the truth: Facepalm.jpeg Btw, just a quick edit: what I mean is, by what they will do, is that they will spread their backdoor infested ideals as far as they can. UEFI has remote issues far reaching no matter what OS is on. Legacy, is only a nightmare to operating systems not developed by people who actually care about security. So... yeah, this is all not good.
mscarav commented 1 year ago
Poster

Hi,

your points are very interesting. I have been thinking about the issues I had with the latest Libreboot. Perhaps I should try a different distro with that, maybe w/o systemd. I was also wondering if upgrading the Lenovo BIOS before flashing Libreboot could have caused my problems. I upgraded to 3.22 (EC firmware 1.07).

Hi, your points are very interesting. I have been thinking about the issues I had with the latest Libreboot. Perhaps I should try a different distro with that, maybe w/o systemd. I was also wondering if upgrading the Lenovo BIOS before flashing Libreboot could have caused my problems. I upgraded to 3.22 (EC firmware 1.07).
Ghost commented 1 year ago

If you have a live persistent boot, meaning you installed an operating system like devuan on a flash drive, preferably one that is an ssd flash drive and is at least 30 megabyte speed without any huge overheating issues or other bad issues, this can tell you if it is in fact a systemd issue or something else.

It is also possibly an issue of the crap that GNU + Linux is being infected with on a deeper level too, but the only way to find out is to try a persistent live install with Devuan and if you brave enough, Hyperbola. OR, to install it directly the usual way.

I would normally suggest disk cloning via usb 3.0 after using qemu guide from their wikibooks page, but thing is... disk cloning via usb 2.0, is exceedingly slow...

I mean, unless you can make a 20GB install via qcow2 and then resize from within after you have made an empty 20GB partition.

But I would very much not be surprised if you had no idea how to do this the right way...

I been using GNU + Linux since 2013+

Not sure when I started, but only as of less than 3 years ago did I learn of the qcow2 to disk cloning option.

IF you don't know what you are doing, its very tricky and painful.

I only recommend this for Hyperbola. However, it is probably not going to be the best option, going forward regarding their GNU + Linux version.

They switching to an OpenBSD hard fork base.

Also it is a DIY distro, so...

Stick with the devuan method for now as a test.

;)

Devuan to be fair, is the easiest non-systemd distro I know of.

Hope this helps!

If you have a live persistent boot, meaning you installed an operating system like devuan on a flash drive, preferably one that is an ssd flash drive and is at least 30 megabyte speed without any huge overheating issues or other bad issues, this can tell you if it is in fact a systemd issue or something else. It is also possibly an issue of the crap that GNU + Linux is being infected with on a deeper level too, but the only way to find out is to try a persistent live install with Devuan and if you brave enough, Hyperbola. OR, to install it directly the usual way. I would normally suggest disk cloning via usb 3.0 after using qemu guide from their wikibooks page, but thing is... disk cloning via usb 2.0, is exceedingly slow... I mean, unless you can make a 20GB install via qcow2 and then resize from within after you have made an empty 20GB partition. But I would very much not be surprised if you had no idea how to do this the right way... I been using GNU + Linux since 2013+ Not sure when I started, but only as of less than 3 years ago did I learn of the qcow2 to disk cloning option. IF you don't know what you are doing, its very tricky and painful. I only recommend this for Hyperbola. However, it is probably not going to be the best option, going forward regarding their GNU + Linux version. They switching to an OpenBSD hard fork base. Also it is a DIY distro, so... Stick with the devuan method for now as a test. ;) Devuan to be fair, is the easiest non-systemd distro I know of. Hope this helps!
Ghost commented 1 year ago

Just tested this, it is definitely a systemd problem.

I booted devuan beowulf without any problems whatsoever.

Seems that I was more right about the bloatware that is being pushed into linux is in fact a massively insane issue.

;)

Aka, I booted my X200 with the new firmware easily and I shut it down without any of the problems you mentioned.

...

Just tested this, it is definitely a systemd problem. I booted devuan beowulf without any problems whatsoever. Seems that I was more right about the bloatware that is being pushed into linux is in fact a massively insane issue. ;) Aka, I booted my X200 with the new firmware easily and I shut it down without any of the problems you mentioned. ...
mscarav commented 1 year ago
Poster

Hi again,

and thank you very much for your help. What you are suggesting makes perfect sense. I will try to make a Devuan install on a spare hard drive and test with that as soon as I can. I will post my results after the test.

Hi again, and thank you very much for your help. What you are suggesting makes perfect sense. I will try to make a Devuan install on a spare hard drive and test with that as soon as I can. I will post my results after the test.
Ghost commented 1 year ago

That is a wise idea

I actually noticed after I posted, that the power icon was still on despite everything else going off.

I plan though to try to install Hyperbola on that laptop now, as a final measure to know how deep this problem goes.

If Hyperbola can't be installed without any of these weird bleep issues, then it is likely a libreboot issue.

Btw, as an unrelated note, the brightness issue you mentioned, I had on the old 2016/09 libreboot stable as well.

So... the only issue I know of as of now that I need to test if I were to be sure is how shutdown works on the new libreboot stable.

Beyond that, it works the way it used to as far as I know.

That is a wise idea I actually noticed after I posted, that the power icon was still on despite everything else going off. I plan though to try to install Hyperbola on that laptop now, as a final measure to know how deep this problem goes. If Hyperbola can't be installed without any of these weird bleep issues, then it is likely a libreboot issue. Btw, as an unrelated note, the brightness issue you mentioned, I had on the old 2016/09 libreboot stable as well. So... the only issue I know of as of now that I need to test if I were to be sure is how shutdown works on the new libreboot stable. Beyond that, it works the way it used to as far as I know.
mscarav commented 1 year ago
Poster

You were absolutely right. Tried Devuan with OpenRC init system and the issues with battery icon disappearing and screen brightness are gone. I can confirm that the only problem is the system hanging at shutdown, but for some reason not everytime (ACPI issue, AE_NOT_FOUND error). I did not have time to do extensive testing or try a different init system in Devuan. Maybe I'll do that at some point. For my convenience, I think I will stay with the oldstable Libreboot for now. Also, as a side note, I had the chance to do some testing with Debian as well on my other drive and the issues seemed gone if booting the system with Wifi disabled (I mean hardware switch on X200).

You were absolutely right. Tried Devuan with OpenRC init system and the issues with battery icon disappearing and screen brightness are gone. I can confirm that the only problem is the system hanging at shutdown, but for some reason not everytime (ACPI issue, AE_NOT_FOUND error). I did not have time to do extensive testing or try a different init system in Devuan. Maybe I'll do that at some point. For my convenience, I think I will stay with the oldstable Libreboot for now. Also, as a side note, I had the chance to do some testing with Debian as well on my other drive and the issues seemed gone if booting the system with Wifi disabled (I mean hardware switch on X200).
Ghost commented 1 year ago

@mscarav I will try to do some disk cloning to my X200, to see if this is even the case on Hyperbola even now, sometime on or after the 10th.

I am curious aka, if its one of those weird expletive frameworks, designed by one of those redhat developers.

Aka, systemd, dbus, wayland, networkmanager, pulseaudio, pipewire, avahi and other likewise stuff.

Reason being, curious to know how far down the chain this problem goes.

I want to see if it goes to dephts of gnu and linux as a whole.

I hope to let you know if I find an answer.

:)

@mscarav I will try to do some disk cloning to my X200, to see if this is even the case on Hyperbola even now, sometime on or after the 10th. I am curious aka, if its one of those weird expletive frameworks, designed by one of those redhat developers. Aka, systemd, dbus, wayland, networkmanager, pulseaudio, pipewire, avahi and other likewise stuff. Reason being, curious to know how far down the chain this problem goes. I want to see if it goes to dephts of gnu and linux as a whole. I hope to let you know if I find an answer. :)
mscarav commented 1 year ago
Poster

I am also very interested to know. I look forward to hearing anything you find and thank you for sharing.

I am also very interested to know. I look forward to hearing anything you find and thank you for sharing.
Ghost commented 1 year ago

Thankfully it arrived today, so... its possible, I might be able to tonight.

Still need to copy my whole qcow2 image to that same drive though...

;)

Will tell you at most by thursday, more likely tuesday.

Unless some weird stuff happens that is unreasonably nuts. Which usually doesn't anyhow.

Btw, the thing that arrived, is an express card to usb 3.0 type thing.

Using it on my x200, as we speak.

:)

Only problem I am having is copying the whole thing onto the SSD at the moment. For some reason, despite it being a qcow2, it keeps saying I am out of space, when in reality... not so much. ;)

Will try to get this done soon tho.

Btw, which kernel were you on anyways?

Because I heard some really nutty stuff about the 5.19 kernel.

I wonder if this issue exists on linux-libre as well...

https://forum.manjaro.org/t/warning-linux-kernel-5-19-12-can-damage-intel-laptops-display/123381

You may wish to do a search on linux-libre via searx, duckduckgo, if you still trust them, not sure myself...

Try to use searx more once I found out their core isn't libre, etc...

but yeah type this into a search engine like a workable searx or other private search engine:

display issues linux 5.19

Its possible that this doesn't just give the display issues, but other things...

I hope I am wrong, but it almost seems like there might be some crap entering the kernel. Someone told me back when 5.10, was out and Hyperbola was on 4.9, that they didn't trust the newer kernels, due to stability issues that were entering even the LTS kernels.

Seems that someone may have been more right, alot more than they thought.

That someone, is in fact emulatorman.

Anywho, if you or anyone else knows if this bug was a problem for linux-libre-lts or otherwise, let me know!

Even if it hit the stable version, that is a concern already.

Thankfully it arrived today, so... its possible, I might be able to tonight. Still need to copy my whole qcow2 image to that same drive though... ;) Will tell you at most by thursday, more likely tuesday. Unless some weird stuff happens that is unreasonably nuts. Which usually doesn't anyhow. Btw, the thing that arrived, is an express card to usb 3.0 type thing. Using it on my x200, as we speak. :) Only problem I am having is copying the whole thing onto the SSD at the moment. For some reason, despite it being a qcow2, it keeps saying I am out of space, when in reality... not so much. ;) Will try to get this done soon tho. Btw, which kernel were you on anyways? Because I heard some really nutty stuff about the 5.19 kernel. I wonder if this issue exists on linux-libre as well... https://forum.manjaro.org/t/warning-linux-kernel-5-19-12-can-damage-intel-laptops-display/123381 You may wish to do a search on linux-libre via searx, duckduckgo, if you still trust them, not sure myself... Try to use searx more once I found out their core isn't libre, etc... but yeah type this into a search engine like a workable searx or other private search engine: display issues linux 5.19 Its possible that this doesn't just give the display issues, but other things... I hope I am wrong, but it almost seems like there might be some crap entering the kernel. Someone told me back when 5.10, was out and Hyperbola was on 4.9, that they didn't trust the newer kernels, due to stability issues that were entering even the LTS kernels. Seems that someone may have been more right, alot more than they thought. That someone, is in fact emulatorman. Anywho, if you or anyone else knows if this bug was a problem for linux-libre-lts or otherwise, let me know! Even if it hit the stable version, that is a concern already.
Ghost commented 1 year ago

Huge update, guess what? This issue you just mentioned?

It has absolutely no effect on Hyperbola at all!

Well, beyond the brightness issues, which actually existed before updating to this newer version.

Btw, also, I am very well aware it was supposedly fixed recently.

But yeah, this is definitely due to some dbus or other weird expletive reason.

I had a feeling this would be nothing for my distro.

Its possible removing dbus made the problems exist in Hyperbola regarding brightness starting at low light levels. Not sure, but point being, thats the only problem I see currently.

:)

By fixed recently, I mean libreboot devs have fixed it for the next testing or stable.

Though I recommend waiting for stable.

:D

Huge update, guess what? This issue you just mentioned? It has absolutely no effect on Hyperbola at all! Well, beyond the brightness issues, which actually existed before updating to this newer version. Btw, also, I am very well aware it was supposedly fixed recently. But yeah, this is definitely due to some dbus or other weird expletive reason. I had a feeling this would be nothing for my distro. Its possible removing dbus made the problems exist in Hyperbola regarding brightness starting at low light levels. Not sure, but point being, thats the only problem I see currently. :) By fixed recently, I mean libreboot devs have fixed it for the next testing or stable. Though I recommend waiting for stable. :D
mscarav commented 1 year ago
Poster

Hi, sorry for replying a bit late. The kernel I use is 5.10 (Debian Bullseye/Devuan Chimaera). That 5.19 kernel issue sounds terrible, I'll make sure to avoid it. I have never used linux-libre, so unfortunately I cannot comment on that.

Hi, sorry for replying a bit late. The kernel I use is 5.10 (Debian Bullseye/Devuan Chimaera). That 5.19 kernel issue sounds terrible, I'll make sure to avoid it. I have never used linux-libre, so unfortunately I cannot comment on that.
Ghost commented 1 year ago

@mscarav something interesting, btw...

on the latest libreboot stable as of writing this, which is the first one in 2022, when I loaded the 5.19 linux-libre kernel, at this time, it was a LTS one I think?

Anywho, funny thing happened, when I loaded my spare devuan SSD portable, I currently use it for specific situations, for the time being.

The funny thing is, the display started low, but I couldn't raise it!

Not with my custom script here:

#!/bin/bash

xset dpms force off && xset dpms force on

and yes, the above is executable and is a python script.

But yeah, it usually works, but it didn't this time, nor did the hardware keys for my x200.

I don't know if this is a problem for 5.19 kernels in general for libreboot till the new update, but I recall it being a 5.19.89 kernel, last I checked.

Point being, this issue does not occur with 5.15 linux-libre-lts kernel, anywho, sleepy, later!

Oh and btw, jxself.org's guide to adding the repo was how I added it to devuan.

Although, I don't know if this is due to some other issue... if you want to ask me anything else though, I recommend you contact me elsewhere, lest I annoy some devs here, by posting nonstop.

Peace tho

@mscarav something interesting, btw... on the latest libreboot stable as of writing this, which is the first one in 2022, when I loaded the 5.19 linux-libre kernel, at this time, it was a LTS one I think? Anywho, funny thing happened, when I loaded my spare devuan SSD portable, I currently use it for specific situations, for the time being. The funny thing is, the display started low, but I couldn't raise it! Not with my custom script here: #!/bin/bash xset dpms force off && xset dpms force on and yes, the above is executable and is a python script. But yeah, it usually works, but it didn't this time, nor did the hardware keys for my x200. I don't know if this is a problem for 5.19 kernels in general for libreboot till the new update, but I recall it being a 5.19.89 kernel, last I checked. Point being, this issue does not occur with 5.15 linux-libre-lts kernel, anywho, sleepy, later! Oh and btw, jxself.org's guide to adding the repo was how I added it to devuan. Although, I don't know if this is due to some other issue... if you want to ask me anything else though, I recommend you contact me elsewhere, lest I annoy some devs here, by posting nonstop. Peace tho
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